NOOB needing advice on a from-scratch upgrade

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briansayler

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briansayler
I am a 65 hour student pilot, nearing the checkride in the next few weeks. I am looking at buying a C150. Great little plane that I'm going to get at a great price. The only problem is the panel is seriously, seriously dated. I think all the instruments are original from 1967. No ADSB.

I'm trying to jump in and educate myself quickly on how to get the most bang for my buck in upgrading stuff. It definitely needs a new attitude indicator, and I want ADSB. If I could, I'd set it up to do my IR training in it to save the cost of renting a school plane for that training.

It has one VOR in it, so the antenna is already mounted for that. No idea if it works yet. I haven't had the pre-buy inspection yet.

I'm looking at everything from the uAvionix AV-30 to the Aspen Evolution, to the Dynon Skyview HDX, Dual G5's, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I need a little advice on what is going to be the best turnkey solution for the least money. It seems like the Dynon would have almost everything needed to bring the plane into the 21st century, but it might be out of my price range.

2 caveats: 1) I know people are going to tell me not to spend a ton of money upgrading a C150, but I'm telling you, this will be the only plane I ever own. I'm never upgrading or climbing the ladder to bigger planes, I will never be able to afford it. This plane is it. 2) I have an A&P mechanic friend who will help me do anything to the plane for little or nothing for labor.

So, where do I start?
 
first, its going to be expensive any way you go. equipment plus install will probably cost more than the airplane. the skyview is great, i have one. however, realistically your looking at north of 20k plus install and that is without a IFR GPS. to make a HDX a real IFR platform requires two screens, two ahars and backup batteries at the least.
probably the best bang for your buck is two G5's and a garmin IFR GPS, and a adsb transponder or one of the other garmin boxes that add gps and adsb.
 
A new panel is always a huge project, no matter if it is for a C150 or a PA46-500TP. And I would not rely on the friendship of an AP/IA because it will be easily something in the 100+ hours range.

Here is my innermost secret:
Sign up
- https://hangarflying.com/paneldesigner
- pick the template for your plane and just play to get a feeling what is possible.

I am a big fan of the Dynon HDX and I have seen it installed in C150/152 in the past. I consider it the best retrofit solution currently available for certified aircraft.
So I suggest that you download the pricing calculator form from Dynon to get an impression that it is not just the screen. Unfortunately, it adds up pretty quick. 2.7k for the STC, 2k for the D30 stand-by, backup batteries, AHRS, interfaces ......

Dynon Certified | Approved Model List

Dynon Avionics' SkyView HDX STC Aircraft Approval
www.dynoncertified.com www.dynoncertified.com

Combined with a remote transponder SV-261 plus ADS-B in/out and the very fine SV-Com T8 you can save a lot of the precious panel real estate. With the engine monitoring system you can say good-bye to the old engine gauges and install a carb temp sensor. Carb icing is one of the most underestimated risks in the entire GA-World.

I would pair it with a Garmin GPS 175. I would not suggest to look for an used Garmin GNS430. Garmin has announced that they will discontinue and phase out the support in the future due to a lack of parts. New screens are already n/a. If the budget allows, I would replace the Garmin GPS 175 with an used Avidyne IFD440 in order to add ILS / VOR capability for the instrument training and a second radio is always nice.

Dynon HDX is the premium deluxe package. The more economical solution would be to follow the AV-30 route, paired either with Garmin GPS 175 / used Avidyne IFD 440 and a panel-mouned Ipad Mini as a kind of MFD display.


I would not recommend the Aspen in your situation. Even so it is a good system, at the end of the day it is an older system and not much cheaper than a Dynon HDX install if IFR capable. Furthermore you have usually to keep the vaccum pump for your backup instruments.
 
Consider the PS Engineering PAR200B audio/radio combo

Quick exercise using the hangarflying template

1716218085378.png
 
briansayler said:
I am a 65 hour student pilot, nearing the checkride in the next few weeks. I am looking at buying a C150. Great little plane that I'm going to get at a great price. The only problem is the panel is seriously, seriously dated. I think all the instruments are original from 1967. No ADSB.

I'm trying to jump in and educate myself quickly on how to get the most bang for my buck in upgrading stuff. It definitely needs a new attitude indicator, and I want ADSB. If I could, I'd set it up to do my IR training in it to save the cost of renting a school plane for that training.

It has one VOR in it, so the antenna is already mounted for that. No idea if it works yet. I haven't had the pre-buy inspection yet.

I'm looking at everything from the uAvionix AV-30 to the Aspen Evolution, to the Dynon Skyview HDX, Dual G5's, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I need a little advice on what is going to be the best turnkey solution for the least money. It seems like the Dynon would have almost everything needed to bring the plane into the 21st century, but it might be out of my price range.

2 caveats: 1) I know people are going to tell me not to spend a ton of money upgrading a C150, but I'm telling you, this will be the only plane I ever own. I'm never upgrading or climbing the ladder to bigger planes, I will never be able to afford it. This plane is it. 2) I have an A&P mechanic friend who will help me do anything to the plane for little or nothing for labor.

So, where do I start?
Click to expand...
I would find some other fool who has done this and is selling his plane,
 
Look for a 150 that’s been upgraded,what looks like a good buy can turn into a real money pit when you start dealing with avionics. I have a 150 l model and it’s going to be my last airplane.
 
Don't over buy, but buy enough avionics.

The latest trend for C150's is:
* Pair of G5's or pair of GI-275's if budget allows
* GNX-375 ADS-B transponder with WAAS GPS
* GNC-215 Nav/Com
* GNC-205 Com
* Audio panel PS-450B or C or Garmin

You will want a 4 cylinder engine monitor like the Garmin 275 EIS or EI CGR-30P. The GNX-375 also includes Garmin Connext to bluetooth an iPad with ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot.

You will get a blizzard of ideas from the crew here. Avionics have become more preeminent in boosting resale. Younger crowd who grew up with iPads wants more glass in the cockpit. About 80% of that old corroded crispy wire under the dash gets replaced.
 
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I did similar when I first got my 140. My plane is VFR. Removed VOR, replaced 430 + 327 with a 335 + 225.
If I had a a do over:
* A 375 or 175 would have been a good choice (not available when I upgraded)
* ADS-B in. Carrying around a portable is slightly annoying.
* AHRS. Having just replumbed my vacuum system, I should have just ripped out all the gyro instruments and used a 660 or ForeFlight as an AI in case the feces hit the air circulator.
 
NordicDave said:
You will want a 4 cylinder engine monitor like the Garmin 275 EIS or EI CGR-30P. The GNX-375 also includes Garmin Connext to bluetooth an iPad with ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot.
Click to expand...
Or JPI 900.

If you put in an engine monitor, put in one that is Primary and you can get rid of all the legacy engine gauges.
 
Adding a thought, most of what is being recommended will also allow you to remove your vacuum system and save 10-12 lbs. along with some potential maintenance.
 
briansayler said:
I'm never upgrading or climbing the ladder to bigger planes, I will never be able to afford it. This plane is it.
Click to expand...

I don't have an answer for you. I ordered an AV30 & TailbeaconX (transponder & ADSB out) for my experimental. Dynon is very nice but it just ain't in the budget for me.

I do caution you to "never say never, never say always" as you have no idea what tomorrow will bring ... :dunno:
 
Keep it VFR. AV-30 or Aspen E5 plus GTX-375. If you really need engine monitor add in a non-primary 3" like a JPI-730.

Fly it for a while like that and then figure out what you're missing. You can still do fogle work in it. You can still do a bunch if IFR training like that. You can't unspent money if you got the wrong rhing.
 
A GNX-375 checks the ADS-B box plus WAAS GPS for IFR work. Keep your current NAV-COM as backup if operable and legal. G5s might be overkill, but they are great, and with them you can pull your vac system and remove the need for an external CDI for the GPS.
 
Another viewpoint is whether you are capable of assisting with the avionics work. Our club recently upgraded our 150G, the initial goal being to simply replace one radio and add an audio panel. With guidance from our AI, project creep resulted in a new center stack, circuit breakers, an avionics bus, GNC355, KI-155, GI-275, PMA6000, JPI830, all new RG400 coax, audio jacks and wiring, Comant marker beacon antenna, and repainting and recovering the panel. We even added an audio out jack in the overhead console so you can record your lessons on a GoPro. We already had a uAvionix Skybeacon for ADS-B out. We did all the work ourselves, with several members contributing over a few months. We will have an IFR capable plane - we have to find a static leak in one of the static system gauges - but right now it's capable as a trainer, which was the goal. Doing it this way you will learn an insane amount as it relates to your instrument training, especially if you do all of the post installation testing as described in the relevant installation manuals. We spent six hours sitting on the ground the first day just going through the checks. Total cost was just under $19k, this included new carpeting, headliner, interior plastics. The King KI-155 (w/ glideslope) came out of our 182 last year, and the GI-275 is touch selectable to indicate VOR/LOC from the KI-155 or GPS from the GNC355. One thing to notice is that we relocated the steam gauges from their original locations to the more traditional six pack arrangement, exception being the VSI, which remained below the CDI.

I'm also new to the private pilot scene, since 9/2021. Being in a flying club and actively helping with the maintenance I've gotten to know many people at two maintenance shops and one avionics shops, and everyone has been very welcoming and willing to talk to owners who show an interest in learning about their planes. I assume you're associated with a flight school, and I'll bet they're part of a shop. Before you buy a plane, you're going to need a shop for your annuals. Start there, talk to them. Another consideration, once your plane is set up the way you like it, you could possibly lease it back to the flight school to help cover costs.

Our "new' 150G, first flight was two days ago. Before and after pics:
 

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Clip4 said:
I would find some other fool who has done this and is selling his plane,
Click to expand...
Something tells me that nobody who has done this is also selling the plane, at least not in airworthy condition. But if there is one, it’s almost always cheaper to buy someone’s completed project. Airplanes, boats, cars, houses, horses, etc.

Short of that, if someone wants to have the nicest panel in a Cessna 150, I won’t try to talk him out of it. The OP’s reason does leave something to be desired. Someone who can afford a Cessna 150 plus a really nice glass panel can probably afford a Cherokee plus an almost-as-nice glass panel.

As far as the panel goes, my advice is, once you check the ADS-B and, if desired, IFR GPS boxes, any panel upgrade should aim to ditch the vacuum system and add a primary EIS. Almost everything else is a matter of convenience only. Being free from vacuum failures and having the primary flight instrument also alert you to developing engine problems are serious safety improvements, in my book. That’s mostly an IFR thing, but if you are flying with original engine gauges I still think you catch engine problems faster when the low oil pressure or low EGT on one cylinder are shown right next to the altimeter and heading indicator that you’re looking at frequently.
 
briansayler said:
I am a 65 hour student pilot, nearing the checkride in the next few weeks. I am looking at buying a C150. Great little plane that I'm going to get at a great price. The only problem is the panel is seriously, seriously dated. I think all the instruments are original from 1967. No ADSB.

I'm trying to jump in and educate myself quickly on how to get the most bang for my buck in upgrading stuff. It definitely needs a new attitude indicator, and I want ADSB. If I could, I'd set it up to do my IR training in it to save the cost of renting a school plane for that training.

It has one VOR in it, so the antenna is already mounted for that. No idea if it works yet. I haven't had the pre-buy inspection yet.

I'm looking at everything from the uAvionix AV-30 to the Aspen Evolution, to the Dynon Skyview HDX, Dual G5's, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I need a little advice on what is going to be the best turnkey solution for the least money. It seems like the Dynon would have almost everything needed to bring the plane into the 21st century, but it might be out of my price range.

2 caveats: 1) I know people are going to tell me not to spend a ton of money upgrading a C150, but I'm telling you, this will be the only plane I ever own. I'm never upgrading or climbing the ladder to bigger planes, I will never be able to afford it. This plane is it. 2) I have an A&P mechanic friend who will help me do anything to the plane for little or nothing for labor.

So, where do I start?
Click to expand...
You would be better off buying a trainer someone else has already modernized.

HOWEVER, if I were to execute your plan I would buy a single Dynon Skyview HDX 10” screen with the required standby ADI, 2 ADHRS, backup battery, remote transponder with ADSB IN/Out, comm radio, and the EIS. I’d add a IFD440 to give you IFR GPS and ILS/VOR capability and a backup comm radio. This package gives you everything you need to safely operate every approach with the exception of NDBs. A second screen is a nice to have, but it’s easy for an instructor to fly off your PFD since a glass screen doesn’t induce parallax. The biggest expense of an install like this is labor. If you are handy with electronics and mechanically inclined you could save a lot of money (probably $20,000+) by doing the labor yourself and your A&P buddy inspecting and signing it off. You would have a very capable trainer/slow cross country aircraft. BUT your avionics cost would probably exceed the value of the plane. No big deal if you fly it for the next twenty years, but definitely not a wise investment if you have to sell it five years from now.
 
We are wasting out time with this one. OP never returned.

BTW just 1 ADHRS allowed in a certified HDX install.
 
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